Pro tip: the finance guy in Toledo said the word "payment" 14 times and never once said "interest rate"
Sat through the whole pitch just counting, and by the end I realized the payment talk is the trick, the rate is the bill. Started asking for the total cost out the door before anything else, which got me a $4,200 swing on a used Civic. Does anyone else negotiate this way or am I just slow to catch on?